140: Camp For All: How Inclusive Camp Changes Lives
I’m honored to be joined by Pat Sorrells for this episode. Pat is the CEO and president of Camp For All, a camp for ALL abilities and disabilities that opened in 1998. Pat has invested her heart and life into this organization, serving in her current role since 2007. Camp For All has impacted tens of thousands of people in ways that other camps cannot do. Join us to learn more!
Show Highlights:
The beautiful mission of Camp For All
A truly “barrier-free” camp is much different from other camps.
The importance of a REAL camp experience–instead of short-changing kids with challenging needs
Camp For All structure for programs throughout the year
The unique model of Camp For All in partnering with organizations to provide camps catering to kids with specific needs
Highlights of Pat’s fondest memories of Camp For All’s scope of impact and accommodation
Fun camp activities at Camp For All
Specific accommodations at Camp For All
Want to access Camp For All or partner with Camp For All? Pat explains what to do by accessing their Website.
Resources and Links:
Connect with Camp For All: Website
Preorder my new book: Struggle Care Website, Amazon, and Bookshop
Connect with KC: Website, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook
Get KC’s book, How to Keep House While Drowning
We love the sponsors that make this show possible! You can always find all the special deals and codes for all our current sponsors on our website: www.strugglecare.com/promo-codes.
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KC Davis 0:00
Music. Hello, you sentient balls of stardust. Welcome to struggle. Care. I am your favorite host, KC Davis, and I am here in the studio today with Pat. Pat. Thank you for being here. Thank
Pat Sorrells 0:15
you for inviting me. This is wonderful. I've heard all about you, and I love what you're doing. I think it's wonderful. Thank you.
KC Davis 0:21
Okay, so Pat is the CEO and President of camp for all, which is a camp, as you might under have guessed, for all, for all abilities, all disabilities. And Pat, how long have you been with camp for all?
Pat Sorrells 0:35
I've been with camp for all, for 17 years, which, oh my gosh, yeah, but I was with one of our partner camps prior to that. So camp for all opened in 1998 and I have essentially been going there since then. So I've invested in it. I love it. My heart's there. I see the impact for 1000s. I mean, we've served 185,000
KC Davis 1:05
campers since we opened. Okay, so I have so many questions, but I'm gonna try and take it from the top here. Can you tell us what is like the mission of camp for all? I mean, I think we can kind of deduce that, oh, it's for everyone to be able to enjoy camp experience. But you know, is it truly for all like all disabilities, all abilities, what ages? You know, what is kind of the core mission? Well,
Pat Sorrells 1:28
the mission is camp for all transforms the world for children and adults with challenging illnesses, disabilities or special needs. And it doesn't matter what age. What is so beautiful about what we do is we partner with more than 65 different nonprofits. That means two moms that got together that have children with cerebral palsy start a family camp, and so they can bring a family comes with their children, or it can be Texas Children's Hospital who brings children from the cardiac area. It's called Camp pump it up and or from the Epilepsy Foundation, which is camp spike and wave and it, regardless of the challenge, they can come to camp. What is beautiful about camp, for all is the way it was originally designed. Founders, one had started periwinkle for Children with Cancer and Blood Disorders from Texas Children's Bob Zeller had started camp puppet up for children with epilepsy. And Larry Nye house had lost his son to cancer, and they got together and said, We can't take kids to a real camp because we can't take kids in wheelchairs. We can't take kids that are super sick. The health center is not big enough. Let's build a camp for all. And so then they got together with our architect, who is still our architect, Peter Boudreau, and said, We want you to design this camp, and it's going to be the thing you're most proud of. And what Peter did was so unique. He got together with the potential partners, and he said, You tell me what you need to meet all the needs of the people you serve, and I want you to dream and I want you to dream big. And they gave him all this information. Then he designed the camp. And so what it is barrier free. And when I say that it is, I mean, I can just do all kinds of examples. We're trying to be barrier free in our language. We're very our barrier free in our activities, meaning, regardless of your challenge, you can do every activity, and even someone in a wheelchair that uses a wheelchair can be lifted out of their wheelchair, go up the climbing wall and fly down a zip line. But also our sidewalks, they're concrete, yeah, but they're eight feet wide, concrete. So two people in wheelchairs can roll side by side, two friends can be together. All of our bathrooms are accessible, not one in each bathroom, all of them and all of our doors are wide enough for people that use wheelchairs. We can meet any kind of dietary issue. There is, in fact, our record is 63 different diets for a week, for three meals a day. Wow. I mean that in what we do is the kids go through the lion they just say their name, they're not pointed out as being unique or different. They just say their name, and they get the appropriate tray with the appropriate diet on it. And so they various looks like everybody else is in their cabins, but it is appropriate, they can survive and thrive at camp. We've had moms call after camp and say, Can you give me that recipe? In fact, croutons. We had a crouton one camp a little boy for. And the parish school said, I love camp for all because I love the croutons. And so they did a cooking lesson to learn how to make those croutons.
KC Davis 5:08
You mentioned a climbing wall. And one of the things that really struck me when I saw pictures of camp for all is that you did, you know you say barrier free, but you did not. You didn't like, skimp on the real camp experience. Like, it is, in fact, a climbing wall. You in fact, have ropes courses. You have these activities. Can you talk a little bit about, kind of like, the importance to y'all that you made, you made the real camp experience accessible, instead of like short changing the camp experience. Does that make sense? Yes,
Pat Sorrells 5:46
it does. And I guess Dr Bob Zeller, one of our founders, he had a camper come up to him and say, Dr Bob, a little boy who had epilepsy, he said, Dr Bob, they won't let me go to this camp because I have epilepsy. And so that's why Bob started camp spike and wave, because he said, That's not right. I mean, the impact of camp on a child's life or an adult's life is huge, but when you factor in challenges like our campers have, it is even bigger. And it's so important for us to be able a lot of our campers would not be able to afford to go to camp if they were not didn't have a challenge. So again, we are. We're breaking barriers. And for Dad, if you have a family camp, for instance, if you have a dad that sees his son who never thought would be on a climbing wall. On a climbing wall, he can go back to his office and brag on his son. I mean, those are things that a lot of our parents, a lot of our campers, they didn't think they could do these things. We like to show them what they can do. And so that's why we have all of the camp activities, and you can just participate at different levels.
KC Davis 7:00
And is camp for all just a day camp, or do they do overnight as well?
Pat Sorrells 7:05
Oh, we are an overnight camp. We have a few day camps, but we are essentially overnight. We have 18 cabins, and then we have five retreat cabins. And so in the summer, the camps are like a week long. And the rest of the year we have camps coming in on Wednesday, the Friday or Friday to Sunday. It's amazing what happens in just a couple of days, or five days. And the kids, it's so funny. I'll never forget, we had a family bring their son from Dallas, and they said, Well, we can only stay a couple of hours because we have to get back on the road. And they were concerned, and the little boy was really hesitant, and they said, we can only say an hour. And an hour came, and they were still there, and they were still there, and they were still there, and then it was time to leave, and he was holding on to the post and said, I'm not leaving. So that's the impact of what we have, but it also has an impact on the counselors. People repeat being counselors at camp for all volunteers come and see what we do, and they just they are so taken by it. I mean, we make a volunteer situation a win, win. But I think sometimes I wonder if the volunteers get even more out of it. It's just it's amazing to come see it. A lot of people come in and go, Wow, when they drive through our gates. And it's because they realize this is a real camp, really changing lives.
KC Davis 8:41
And are all of the camp sessions family camps, or are there sessions that are just kids? So our partners
Pat Sorrells 8:48
decide what kind of Camp it's going to be. So like, for instance, the Periwinkle Foundation, they have a week long camp in the summer for Children with Cancer and Blood Disorders, ages seven to 15, and they can bring a sibling, if, unless, if there's room. And then they also have a family camp for families that have a child with cancer. They also have a long term survivor camp. The family camp is a weekend camp. Long term survivor is a weekend camp as well. So they decide, they decide what kind of camps they want to have. And also they bring, they have all the medical information. So they bring the doctors, they bring the nurses, they bring the dialysis machines and roll them out. They bring all the meds so the campers get better care, because their doctors for whatever their challenge are there, and many campers can continue therapies while they're at camp and so and so. We don't have all that. For instance, if a if a camp. Comes with epilepsy and brings their sibling. Well, we don't necessarily know which one is has a challenge, and so everybody's treated the same. It's camp for all.
KC Davis 10:12
So talk to us a little bit more about this model, because I do think it's kind of a unique model that you know, camp for all is its own organization, but the way that you bring in campers is by partnering with organizations that are kind of the experts at what they're doing, right? You partner with hospitals. You partner with, you know, it sounds like therapy centers, where they're choosing, you know, they're getting those campers together, and they're bringing their medical staff, and they're bringing the experts that kind of know, which strikes me as kind of a best of both worlds, because there are lots of organizations that wouldn't otherwise have the resources to provide a camp. But it also means that whoever is coming are the experts at who those children are what those children need, and I'm curious, like, how that came to be the model.
Pat Sorrells 11:06
So there are only four camps in the country that have this business model. And our founders looked at Special Needs camps all over the country and found this business model. They thought it would work best in so many ways, because we don't have any of the HIPAA challenges or anything like that. The way it works is our partners bring campers, the doctors, nurses, etc, everything I said before, they bring the in cabin counselors, and they pay half the fee for each camper, for their whole group that comes camp for all provides a barrier free site. The professional staff to run all the activities, and our staff works with each camp to say, what are your goals, and let's develop the schedule so that's all decided before they come again. We can meet any kind of dietary need. There is barrier free, so everybody can do everything. All the activities are that way, and we provide we raise money for the other half of the fee. Why does that work so well? Our partners can bring more campers, and so the cost is reasonable. For instance, it's it's about around $500 for a week of camp, whereas a regular camp would be way more than that, yeah, for a week. And so it keeps the cost. We try and make it 5050, camp for all is really doing 6040 right now, but we try and make it 5050, as much as possible, and so that they can bring more campers. And we serve pre COVID. We were at nearly 9000 campers a year because we're open all year long.
KC Davis 12:54
One of the things I want to kind of go back to talking about the little boy with epilepsy that said that he couldn't go to other camps. And one of the one of the challenges that I've had as a parent whose child has a disability, have an autistic child, is not necessarily her abilities. It is the public's assumptions about her abilities, whether it came to looking for daycares, looking for summer camps, one of the most frustrating things was, and you know, you think about epilepsy and autism and some of these things where it was like, Okay, no, actually, like, like, a certain camp or daycare was capable of accommodating my child would be capable of accommodating an epileptic child, but what stops them is genuinely just fear, and whether it's fear of liability, fear of expertise, oh, we don't know. This isn't sure, and I think that's been one of the most surprising and disheartening parts of this journey, is that you know, you kind of know, as a parent, that, okay, there might be some barriers when it comes to different abilities. There might be some barriers in various environments where we're going to need to bring in some accommodations. But the part that is honestly the hardest is to see someone hear the word autism or hear the word epilepsy, and you see in their brain, they've made a decision about what their organization is capable or willing, and they've made a decision about what your child is capable of doing without actually exploring what the real abilities of that child are. And I think that's something that really speaks to me about camp for all is that, yes, it is amazing to do the work to have a truly accessible environment when it comes to the physical environment and the staff and the accommodations, but there's something really powerful about just an environment that is not afraid. Of a child's disability,
Pat Sorrells 15:01
and that describes us very well. I think that, to me, the we we look at every camp, we look at what their goals are, we don't see differences. We see abilities. And for instance, the three year study done on Camp, for all they did on the summer camp, said that kids left with a growth and self confidence hope, and they realized they weren't alone. So that's our goal. We want to level the playing field for everyone and have them go home with a more power in who they are. And I think that's, that's a goal for every camp that comes in accommodations. Well, they, you know, for instance, the deafblind camp. That's the name of the camp, by the way. They, yeah, I'm trying to be cautious with that, but that's the name of the camp. It's a whole new world for them and how they are going through the world. So we have ways for them to maneuver around camp, deaf, blind, they have lines that they can follow. They there are different ways. I mean, there's been so much advancements, I guess, in how they can live in the world. And so we are. We change our world too, so that when they come to camp, they are able to get, get around easily, and feel, feel whole and normal and and in a world that they are totally accepted, yeah, and I think that's important we've had. I always remember this young man coming to camp. He had autism and other things, but his parents wouldn't leave because they'd never left him alone anywhere. And so they stayed. They kept staying in the and so our staff kind of got him off in a corner. Next thing they knew, he was up on the stage doing karaoke. They never seen that before, and they ended up leaving. And they said that saved their marriage, having that ability to have be able to drop him off somewhere. Yeah, so I think that's the beauty of what we do. We love new camps coming in. We have a whole new gastroenterology camp that's coming in. And so we really were redoing our bathrooms. And so we we made our bathrooms more accommodating to them, and but it works for everybody. It's not just for them. So we're always trying to weigh a way to take things to the next level for our camp. Well,
KC Davis 17:41
I'm so curious what the accommodations in the bathrooms are for the gastro and intestinal group.
Pat Sorrells 17:45
So our current bathrooms have curtains around the toilets, and so are these curtains provide. Well, first of all, our toilets are wide enough so that you can have a caregiver in there to help you, and we have low toilets and high toilets. And so the curtains give you total privacy. So there's overlap. They can be washed easily for us and but they really work well, and so that whoever is in there has total privacy. And we've also have changing tables in a private room in the cabins. And we also just the barrier free aspect of us are all of our showers are wide enough for a caregiver to help you, and there are multiple ways to shower, and there's also a stool out there if you need a stool in the shower. So again, but it's every shower, so that's, that's how we we help them well.
KC Davis 18:46
So I've kept two thoughts, and I don't want to forget them, so I'm gonna say them twice, and then we can talk about them. But one is, I just want to restate how impressed I am with your model, because what it seems like one of the effects is, of course, it makes a better camp experience for the kids and the families, but it keeps you as the organization in the learner role. And I think that when it comes to navigating disability, especially as caregivers, that's the part that can be tricky, because we have to become experts on our child's disability, and at the same time, I've learned as a parent that it is equally as important that I seek out the disability community and I learn from them. You know that I stay in the learner role, and so I kind of love that aspect of it. I'm curious if you know when it comes to your stakeholders and your decision makers, you know how many of those people or that you consult or that participate in that process? How many are caregivers versus how many are people who themselves have a disability that kind of have a say in what that experience should look like for those kids?
Pat Sorrells 19:59
Yeah, well, we have representation on our board, but we also have a partner committee that which is made up of representative from different partners, so we're constantly getting feedback from them. We're always our program supervisors have advanced degrees in this area, and they're always looking for ways to improve things and make things better for those that we serve. I think that also the family camps are impactful, because whether it's a family camp or the family stay together, or a family camp where the moms stay together, the dads stay together, and the kids stay together by age being surrounded by people in the same situation you are, they share resources, they realize they're not alone, and it makes a huge impact on the family. And I think that, I think that's really you know better than anybody. I think the caregivers have a real challenge. This is not what their life was supposed to be like, and so they're operating in a new world and finding ways to find joy in that world. I always remember, and I I'm not quoting it correctly, but it was I got on a plane to fly to Paris, and I was diverted, and I was diverted to Amsterdam, so I'm going to make the most of Amsterdam. It's beautiful in its own right. Yeah. And I have children with learning differences. Well, they're old now, and so I've, you know, not all that, not autism, but one son has a hearing loss, and the other has learning differences and and so I not, you know, have it, they're doing great, but it was hard, you know, I know what that is. I know what that's like. It was hard. All my other friends kids were, you know, on all the no problems, the best schools, all that kind of stuff that wasn't my path. So I really understand it. I'm getting emotional.
KC Davis 22:04
I'm curious in this the last 17 years. Because one of the things that I love, you know, when you mentioned that, you know, the non the able bodied, or the neurotypical siblings that come to camp, and one of the things that I've been really fascinated with in the last couple years is this idea of universal design, where, if we design for disability, it improves the experience of everyone of the general public. And I'm curious if you've seen that with the siblings that come because it seems like these siblings are having a blast as well, and every it's not like the accessibility changes for the children that have illness or disability negatively affect the able bodied children of the neurotypical children's experience at all.
Pat Sorrells 22:52
Well, I have to quote a mom who sent her daughter who did not have cancer to camp with the daughter. She said, the daughter that was did not have cancer. It was more impactful on her, because there's been so much focus put on the child with cancer. And so, yes, I mean, I think I love that idea. I think also that idea, the more it's done, the more it becomes commonplace, and the more it's not, you know, you're not going, what is this? You're going, this is the norm, yeah, and I this is where I hope the world is going, yeah.
KC Davis 23:31
I'm curious, what are some of the camp activities, just like the fun camp activities that y'all do you talked about, you know, the ropes courses and the climbing walls and things like that. What other activities do do families and kids get to do while they're there?
Pat Sorrells 23:47
Well, all right, first of all, you got to come to camp. First of all, you got to come tour to really see
Unknown Speaker 23:52
we're scheduled. My family,
Pat Sorrells 23:55
that's right, you are, yay. I think that's going to be fun. So we've got, we've got a climbing wall, zip lines. We've got a challenge course. We have two giant swings. We have outdoor basketball. We have wheelchairs sports including basketball, soccer and lacrosse. We have a softball field. We have horses. We have our horses. Have our horses that had challenged in their lives. This is who we are. We have a small animal farm with a llama named Lloyd. We have arts and crafts. We have archery, we have paintball. We have two kinds of archery. We have, I mean, I could go on and on, but there are also other activities that are just like things that just come up and that you play and the and things you carnivals. We've got dances, we've got, you know, we've got everything that our regular camp has, but we take it to the next level. And there's if, in a week's time, there's more activities than a camp can do. So there's. That's why our program staff works with each partner to say, All right, what are your goals for this week? Let's see how we move them through the activities, and we also get all of our staff on board with the goals. So if you're working on how do I I want our kids to learn how to go through a serving line and ask for things, and so our staff will know this and can help accommodate.
KC Davis 25:34
I love that. Here's my next question. In the 17 years that you've been there, can you tell us about a couple of accommodations that took you by surprise at first, like, I know, in my experience, like, sometimes I'll learn from a community about, you know, like I wrote a book recently and or a couple years ago, and one of the things when I was trying to make that book accessible was learning about how, you know, Most books will be what's called center justified, where like It looks like a straight line on the left and the right. And I learned that's not that's difficult for people who have dyslexia to read, because it varies the spaces in between the words, and it makes tracking the end of the sentence difficult. And so we left justified my book. And I'm curious if, in all of these kind of remodels and accommodations you've done, like, if there's anything that you thought to yourself, like, huh, I never would have thought of that before they told you, like, even when you were sharing about the bathrooms and about, like, I when you said the sidewalks were eight feet wide so that two people in a wheelchair could go side by side. That was kind of my like, I never would have thought of that. But of course, the experience of walking next to a friend is something that a child in a wheelchair would miss out on if their friend was in a wheelchair and they couldn't physically fit on the path. And I know I kind of sprung this question on you, but I'm curious if you can share, you know, anything like that, that kind of thought You thought, Gosh, I never would have thought of that.
Pat Sorrells 27:06
I guess I can. My way to answer that would be to say how we have changed some things, yeah, to elevate them. And like, for instance, we have, well, approach, let me just do a programming one. First, young man came to Camp multiple, multiple challenges, and his favorite thing was pushing the button on the door to open it, and so and he also there was a camp for all sign there. So he would push the button and point to the camp for all sign and so happy. So that was the only thing he wanted to do. So what they did was his reward to go out and do some of the activities was to be able to come in and push the button. And so that was really cool. And then the challenge course, we now have a and I'm trying to think it's a compound bow archery. We could not find a way for people that could not hold a bow, put have the bow there so they could do compound bow archery. So our staff and our program staff got, I mean, our facilities staff, got together and built some stands that we were sharing the design with other camps that want to use it so you don't have to be able to hold, hold the boat. My favorite photo is a little girl with no arms shooting on bamboo. Luxury. How cool. Yeah, just, sorry, I'm just going to totally blank.
KC Davis 28:34
That's okay. That's one of those questions that I sprung on you that you probably need to think of that first.
Pat Sorrells 28:38
I guess we're always, we're always, I mean, let me just go back to special diets again. When I started, there were some, but now we're, I mean, the special diets are just growing like crazy, and we have to so we're nut free as a ongoing thing now, but special diets are just growing like crazy, so our food services have taken it to the next level in terms of all of our chicken now that will be served is gluten free, and it's good. I mean, that's that they want to make the food really good, not just camp food, but good food. And the some of our camps come in and they like the renal camp, well, they have to have a low salt and other things. So when we have and then the PKU camp, they have an allergy to a feed in a protein, so they have a special diet. So we will we can accommodate both of those diets. Now, if the PKU camp, if they don't eat correctly, they'll have neurological challenges. So it's really and they're learning to take care of themselves. So they're learning in the process when they come to camp, does that answer your question? Yeah, that's great answer, and I'll think of what that thing's called, yeah. So
KC Davis 29:54
if people are listening and they're thinking, Oh my God, my family. Would love this camp. Or if people are listening and they're thinking, wow, my organization, this would be a great way to partner with my organization. Can you speak to maybe both of those as to, like, what should the what should someone do? If you're just an individual family, you know, and you're thinking, Gosh, I wish that I could access a camp like this, you know, is there anything that they can do. And then, if you're an organization thinking this would be great for us to partner with, you know what? How can people reach out? What are options there? So
Pat Sorrells 30:27
the best way for family, or a family with a child with a challenge that they want to send to camp is to go on our website and look under, find a camp, and then put in the challenge, and the camps that serve that challenge will come up, and they contact that camp directly, that partner directly, and then they want to start a camp. Give us a call. Call our camp director, Alan McBride, go on the website. You'll find our numbers on there, and let's talk about it, and we'll we have helped organizations and people start camps that didn't ever have it in their the back of their minds, but they wanted to do it. In fact, we have a family camp for children with severe allergies that's called Bumblebee that has just started. And we can help you start a camp. We can give you, you know what you need to start, how much it's going to cost you as a partner, and how much you know, how much. We're pretty clear on what our costs are and what we need to do. So we can, we've helped a lot of camps get started, and is, if it's an organization, again, call us. Let's get this going. We we can accommodate a lot of campers, and we want to have you. The more campers come, the better we can provide too. So we're we're excited. I can't even tell you came and begin to tell you the impact of camp. You've got to come see it, I mean, and I tell a story because one of my favorite but it's a young girl, she had epilepsy. She was a little girl, she'd already had several brain surgeries, and she came to Camp and had a seizure. She came out of her seizure and she said, Well, I guess I have to go home now. A counselor said, No, let's go to archery. She said that was the first time in her life that she realized she wasn't defined by having epilepsy. She became a counselor for that camp. She worked for camp for all as a professional. She is a child life specialist, married with a child. Yes, she still has epilepsy, but that that moment in time took her forward in her life. And we have volunteers, we have summer staff. They're all past a lot of them are past campers, and so, I mean, yes, some of them need some accommodations to be a counselor, but they're coming back to camp because of the impact the HIV camp. The doctor that came with them said that the kids that have come to camp have moved on with life. They are medically compliant. They're moving forward. They're happy. A lot of their counselors are former campers, and she said the ones that didn't come to camp, if that's not the case. So the impact of Camp is even more than you and I can even imagine, I think
KC Davis 33:33
that's really wonderful. Well, I've gotta say, I'm I've been very impressed with your mission and the way that you guys have gone about this for the past, gosh, 20 or so years. If somebody would like to contribute financially or donate, where's the best place for them to do that
Pat Sorrells 33:50
again? They can go to camp for all.org and it's C, A, M, P, F, O, R, A, L, l.org, and they can go on there, and they can make a donation and online, or they can send us a donation, whatever, or they can give us a call. We love to talk to donors and people that want to support camp for all. So thank you for asking that we work very hard. We start off January one. We start all over again every year raising money.
KC Davis 34:22
Well, Pat. Thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me this morning and for kind of sharing, spreading the gospel of camp. For all it's been really great to learn about it, and I hope that you guys have a really successful year.
Pat Sorrells 34:33
Thank you, Casey, and I look forward to hearing about your experience at camp.